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Blood drive Monday...citizen comments on political signs (should there be a deposit?)
Release Date: October 15, 2013

The Greenburgh police department, CERT team, Greenburgh Library will hold a blood drive on Monday October 21st at 10:30 AM to 3:30 PM at the Greenburgh Library. Call 1-800=RED CROSS to schedule an appointment.
 
One of the reasons why our town is special is because residents of the community are so involved—and because they are not afraid to share their opinions. . Last weekend I posted an e mail asking your neighbors if the town should require deposits for political signs—or fines if political signs are not removed within a certain number of days after election day. The following comments were received from subscribers to the e list. The comments are thoughtful and constructive. The Town Board will discuss at our next Town Board meeting – a week from Wednesday.
PAUL FEINER
From:
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 2:58 PM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Politicl/business oad signs
Yes Paul, I firmly believe that signs as well as flyers of any type should be subject to fines one way or another.  Deposits and/or fines should be required for the signage of politicians and business (yourself include) because they are both unsightly and end up being litter in the end when not retrieved.  I also feel that flyers, when not put through the postal system, should also be subject to fines.  I personally do not like it when I come back to my car and see flyers under my wipers or stuck in my side window--who knows whether my wipers have been damaged when placing the flyers. I now have to take the  unwanted flyer and dispose of it.  Many people just take the and toss them on the ground.  I feel there should be a fine imposed for each flyer not wanted, let's say a nickel, dime or even more, that are turned in by people.  There could be boxes located around town at key locations, or at town hall, where one could drop off collected flyers.  Yes, this would necessitate man-hours, but might result in less littering around town.  Thanks
 
From:
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 10:32 AM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: RE: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
Dear Supervisor Feiner,
 
I generally oppose the regulation of political speech, and in my view the deposit requirement is a restriction on political speech.  I agree that business should not be allowed to use the public right of way for private profit.  However political signs are a public good, they stir interest both for and against a candidate.  I think the tax payers should be willing to pay to remove campaign signs, think of it as a form of public campaign financing.  I would be willing to pay higher taxes if it protected vigorous election campaigns.
 
 
I do not believe a deposit will work.
First, if it is a nominal amount, say a few hundred dollars, those with substantial war chests will simply forfeit the deposit as a cost of running a campaign.
If the deposit is too large, those with little financial support will be discouraged from running.
I believe a fine is more equitable. Give the candidates time to remove the signs - a week or so and then hit them with a per diem fine per each sign.
I suggest you also require them to pull a sign permit. One blanket permit for all signs posted during each election cycle. The application should spell out the penalties in bold print so a candidate cannot claim ignorance of the ordinance.
 
 
From:
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 12:40 AM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Political campaign signs.
 
I agree with the opinion below.
 
"Candidates should be required to pay a deposit to the town if they want to put signs on town roads before primaries/elections.. After the primary/election they would have a specific number of days to remove the signs. If all signs are not removed the candidates would lose the deposit."
 
I am not so sure about allowing businesses to display promos on the lawn. Where politicians will mainly put up signs near the election period, businesses can put up signs any time of the year. As a driver, I find the signs quite distracting to begin with, and I wouldn't want to be further distracted by trying to read some sale signs while driving all year round.
 
From:
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 2:26 PM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: RE: should political signs be regulated? Yes.
Hon. PEF

I like the "deposit" concept. It would (presumably) increase responsible behavior of candidates and their sign "posters." (At the very least, it would cause candidates to stop and think for a moment.) Signage would be more coordinated (by candidate campaign staff). In theory, campaign signs were originally intended for use on private property-- on homeowner lawns, or on business frontage. Paid campaign signage could be placed on commercial billboards. It has become much too cluttered out there, to the point of absurdity with competitive signage placed almost recklessly, without concern for our roads. Who remembers any candidate when so many signs are placed next to one another? Also, one might argue it is a public safety issue, with over-signage creating unnecessary road distraction. 
 
I wholeheartedly agree that political candidates should be required to remove all signs within a specified time period following an election or be fined. I am all for free speech and acknowledge the need for a candidate to get his/her name out there but, following an election, the signs are nothing more than debris littering the roadways. For the past several years I have seen campaign signs littering Central and Jackson Avenues for MONTHS following an election. This is especially the case for the losing candidates. I am a registered Republican who lives in Greenburgh. I usually do not agree with your position on many issues but back you 100% on this initiative should you pursue it. For that matter, you may even get my vote next time around.
 
 
 
From:
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 11:59 PM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Lawn Signs
 
Well, here's my two cents worth concerning the lawn signs--
 
1.  Politics:  It is very irritating to see signs for candidates running for office long after the election is over.  I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect the candidates to have ALL signs taken down within a week or two after the election.  I believe a refundable deposit should also be set in place as an incentive to have the signs taken down within that time period.  As they are getting free advertising, I don't think asking for a deposit is asking for too much.
 
2.  Businesses:  I would NOT want to see lawn signs for businesses on our streets.  Having lawn signs for politics is one thing--elections are only held once a year.  Businesses do not operate the same way.  I think constantly seeing lawn signs for one business or another on our streets is an eye sore.  After all, weren't billboards taken down from our highways for exactly that same reason?  Why put up business lawn signs on our beautiful streets?  
 
 
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 12:35 AM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Re: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
I don't much like campaign signs but I think they should be allowed as a first amendment right since they are political speech that the government can't regulate. Business signs are commercial speech, and we regulate that widely so there's no need to allow it on public property.
 
Once the campaign is over, the signs lose their political speech attribute, I think, because they promote something that no longer exists (vote for me). At that point, they become clutter.
 
I think that there should be a reasonable window after the election where the campaigns must take signs down. After that, the town should remove them (or hire someone to remove them) and bill the campaign or the candidate for the cost of removal. There's no need for righteousness over it -- it's just cleanup after a big public event.
Clean up your mess or we'll do it for you and bill you.
 
I don't see any hypocrisy in the commercial vs political speech dichotomy. We aren't telling companies what to say on signs, we're telling them where they can't put them on public property. Where signs are allowed, it's much harder to tell the what they can put on the sign.
 
 
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 1:23 AM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Re: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
Personally, I think this is too small an issue to worry about.  I don't see any Jimmy Carter signs around.  Someone must eventually be removing them.
 
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 1:30 AM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Lawn signs
Those are my questions.
 
As for your questions, whatever is decided should be done with two prime goals: 1) choose the one with the least impact (in manpower and cost) on having the Town monitor the situation; 2) get the signs removed within a week of the event being advertised to minimize the unsightliness those signs create.
 
I would think that having political and non-profit groups (commercial entities should not be allowed to use lawn signs to advertise because there is no time sensitive element in their advertising and therefore no "end of event" date) pay a deposit that could be forfeited if the signs are not promptly removed, is probably the best way to proceed.
 
Also, when these groups come to pay the deposit, they can be given written guidelines as to where lawn signs may be (or, more importantly, where they may not be) placed.
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 7:43 AM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Signs
 
I do not like all the signs all over. I would like to see designated places where political signs are allowed and removed after the election. Businesses should not be allowed to have signs.  This cheapens the look of the town.  I also think that businesses should be responsible to maintain the signs above there place of business.  Check out the shoe repair sign on Central ave and Hartsdale ave.  This sign needs tending.  Whether it is the landlord or the business owner, someone should have the responsibility of keeping signs fresh and up to date.
 
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 8:23 AM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Re: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
Lawn Signs on personal property vs. the Town right a way, have been reviewed by the Court and private ownership rights win.   Towns/Cities such as White Plains make it impossible to Post ANY Signs on the right of way and pull them up and issue fines. They don't even allow them for a day or a few hours.  Open house signs seem to have an exception for the time of the open house.
 
I like the idea of a deposit which is waived is not removed, this allows signs including Tag Sales etc.
 
The flag can be give to the American Legion for proper disposal, nearest location Legion Drive Valhalla.
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 8:28 AM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Signage
 
The business advertising sign laws are just fine.  If business were allowed to put up ads anywhere, our community from the sky would look like one giant billboard with a million little pieces.  Total eye pollution.
It's okay for "our" candidates to put up signs as long as they remove them immediately after the election.  In New Hampshire our town had designed places where the political signage could be placed.  Typically it was at corners.  I believe the law also required removal quickly after the election.
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 9:59 AM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Re: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
Paul
 
Yes on the deposit for political signs- should be high enough to cover the actual cost of Town workers who have to remove them- including "lost opportunities cost" for work the Town employees should have been doing. Definitely keep deposit if not removed within specified time period. 
 
No on allowing businesses to post lawn signs- talk about clutter and distraction from important signs motorists should be reading- safety implications. There are enough distractions for drivers- radio, cell phones, GPS, etc.
 
Thx for asking
 
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 8:03 AM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Re: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
- businesses shd not be able to put up roadside signs.  There are many more businesses than candidates, which cd result in tremendous clutter
- campaign signs shd have the same rules as businesses: if the signs are not removed within XX days of the election, they shd be fined
- requiring a non refundable deposit (unless it is really punitive, like $250 per sign), will result in signs being left in place - and the deposit forfeited as a 'campaign cost'.  So the town might earn a bit of money, but the litter problem will remain.
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 10:40 AM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Re: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
Hi Paul:
 
Yes, I think that businesses should have the same rights as candidates to put up signs.  Candidates should be required to remove signs within a certain number of days after an election.  I think that locations should be designated where signs are permitted so that streets are not littered.
 
Regards,
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 10:43 AM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Re: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
Paul,
 
Political signs are a distinct issue from commercial signs.  I think having candidates put a deposit down is too big a hammer to fix what is not a big problem.  Perhaps there should be a so-called "gentleman's agreement" that all signs should be removed within a generous time period, like 1 week after the campaign. Any straggler signs, maybe there should be an email address to notify a candidate of a sign that they forgot to remove.
 
The issue of the proliferation of commercial signs all over the place is another thing.  I see signs crop up about half-price limos, earning $$$ from home, dating services, as well as soft-ball/ football league sign ups.  They are stuck in the ground or nailed to utility poles.  I believe these signs are detrimental to "quality-of-life" and a solution is needed.  Perhaps there could be specific areas to post these things or they should be eliminated all-together. I'm not sure of what the thoughtful solution would be, but a discussion about it is certainly in order.
 
 
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 11:01 AM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Re: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
Please also include nonprofits in your discussion. The library had signs all over town re it's book sale which was a week   Ago
 
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 11:07 AM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Political and Business Signs
 
Dear Paul,
 
Thank you so much for bringing up the question of the ugly political and business signs that degrade the beauty of our Town.
 
Political Signs:
Everyone I know is appalled each year by the ugliness of the signs posted in the town during campaign season and usually left to decay, sometimes for years.  We think that the tightest regulations that do not cause a First Amendment problem should be adopted.
 
Business Signs: 
Business signs on the sidewalk, including the hazardous A-frames that are proliferating on East Hartsdale Avenue, should be outlawed outright.  There should be no Constitutional problem here as the First Amendment has been interpreted as not applying to commercial free speech.
 
Controlling signs would be one very large step in improving the streetscapes of our Town.
 
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 11:21 AM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: RE: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
From what I read you are trying to look at this from the same angle when these are both Apples and Oranges. I can see the thought of collecting a fee for business advertisement since the said sign will possibly bring in more then they put out. But for political signs: this a notice to those who may not know who is running. Everyone is usually familiar with names they have heard or hear people speak of. But for those who; 1. May not have the collateral to pay a rental fee. 2. trying to get there lesser name known, this is an opportunity for them. So charging is only for the advantage of a larger political party. 
 
Now, looking at it from the cluttered or messy point of view I whole heartedly agree. They can cause an annoying distraction and litter the landscape. I would propose notifying all candidates that 5 days after the election all signs need to be remove or a fee (fine) will be levied against the  candidate regardless of whether he / she or their constituents posted them. This would give them fair warning that its just not a matter of placing a sign any where they desire. The other option I agree with, is designated areas where the signs could be placed. This doesn't omit unknown candidates cause they will have the same opportunity.
 
Thanks!
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 11:32 AM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Re: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
Paul,
No business signs should be allowed.
 
For political signs, I suggest

  • they not be allowed to be put out until two weeks before an election
  • a deposit of $250 and a grace period of four days after the election to remove all signs
  • the deposit to be returned three weeks after the election
  • if there is a primary, the signs would need to be removed and returned.
 
 
From: Timothy Lewis
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 11:58 AM
To: Paul Feiner; Aajaf@aol.com
Cc: Towncouncil; Townclerk
Subject: RE: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
Attached and below is a proposed local law that the Town Attorney’s office drafted several years ago.
 
Tim
                                       TOWN of GREENBURGH
 

                                       Local Law No.      /2010

 
 
A Local Law amending Chapter 240 of the Town Code of the Town of Greenburgh pursuant to New York State Constitution Article IX and New York Municipal Home Rule Law § 10.
 
            BE IT ENACTED by the Town Board of the Town of Greenburgh as follows:
 
§ 1.      Title.
             § 2.      Legislative Findings
 § 3.      Amendment to § 240-3B.
 § 4.      Amendment to § 240-3C       
 § 5.      Severability.
             § 6.      Effective Date.
           
 
§ 1.      Title.   “A Local Law amending Chapter 240 entitled, Sign and Illumination Law, in the Code of the Town of Greenburgh.”
§ 2.      Legislative Findings.  The Town Board of the Town of Greenburgh finds that during times of primary, special and general elections, various candidates for public office place campaign signs throughout the unincorporated portion of the Town. The Town Board finds that although campaign signs are important to residents of the Town and the general public, it is in the best interest of the Town that such signs be regulated by requiring a candidate, or his or her representative, deposit a refundable fee with the Town Clerk prior to the posting or installation of such signs which fee shall be returned to a candidate, or his or her representative, only if such signs have been removed with thirty (30) days after the election for which the sign has been posted.
§ 3.      Amendment to § 240-3B.
 
§ 240-3B of the Greenburgh Town Code is hereby amended as follows (deleted text in strikeout; new text underlined):
 
 
            B Type by use.
                  (10) Political Campaign. A sign used to identify a candidate for public office during the time of a primary, special or general election in the unincorporated portion of the Town.
 
§ 4.      Amendment to § 240-3C.
 
§ 240-3C of the Greenburgh Town Code is hereby amended as follows (deleted text in strikeout; new text underlined):
 
            C. Regulation of signs, all districts.
    (21) The candidate for elected office or an authorized agent or the erector or installer of such political campaign signs shall apply for and obtain a permit from the Building Inspector and deposit with the Town, at the time of application, the sum of $250 in cash, certified check or money order to post any and all political signs in the unincorporated portion of the Town and the candidate for elected office or an authorized agent or the erector or installer of such political campaign signs shall be required to remove all such signs within thirty (30) days after a primary, special or election. In the event such signs are not removed within such period, the Town shall have them removed and shall keep the sum deposited to reimburse the Town for expenses incurred in removal of such signs.
 
§ 5.      Severability:  If any clause, sentence, paragraph, subdivision, section or part of this chapter or the application to any person or circumstance shall be adjudged by any court of competent jurisdiction to be invalid or unconstitutional, such order or judgment shall not affect, impair or invalidate the remainder thereof, but shall be confined in its operation to the clause, sentence, paragraph, subdivision, section or part of this chapter, or its application to the person or circumstance directly involved in the controversy in which such order or judgment shall be rendered.
 
§ 6.  Effective Date:  This Local Law shall take effect immediately upon filing with the Secretary of State.
 
 
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 12:01 PM
To: Paul Feiner
Cc: Towncouncil; Timothy Lewis; Townclerk
Subject: Re: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
If there's a contingent plan that will have the town clean up the signs and the deposit lost by the candidates can cover that labor cost- I think it may be worth pursuing.
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 12:16 PM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Re: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
          Mr.Feiner,
 
   Candidates and business's should be treated the same.
 
Sincerely
 
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 12:50 PM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: SUGGESTION FROM ELEANOR RICE
 
Paul: SUGGESTION: garage sale and tag sale signs should be removed from public light and telephone poles after the sale has taken place....some signs linger on posts for MONTHS after the sale is over.....the addresses are there..how about a $25 fine for each sign that is still up 5 days after the sale????
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 1:01 PM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Re: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
Paul  as a  former candidate,I feel a refundable deposit when putting up signs is fair to the individual and the town,  a good idea
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 1:10 PM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Re: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
$75.00 a day is a steep fine.
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 2:27 PM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Re: should political signs be regulated
 
Paul,
 
Thank you for your concern in raising this issue.  I have noticed that unauthorized business advertising proliferate in the Town of Greenburgh, and it seems that little or no effort is made to remove them.  There are several signs for window cleaning and limo services posted high up on utility poles along Knollwood/Hartsdale Ave (100A), (at Stadium Road and elsewhere) which require a ladder and tools to remove, and have been up for well over a year.  These signs add to the visual clutter along the roadside, and make Greenburgh a less attractive place.  I think the town should schedule a Sanitation patrol to remove them.
 
Since you raise the issue, it is also an ongoing problem where residents post Tag/Garage/Estate/Yard sale signs that never get taken down.  These also add to visual roadside cutter, and also become a litter nuisance when they eventually start to disintegrate and fall. I don't see why residents shouldn't be required to remove them as any civic minded and conscientious person should do.  I know that Scarsdale bans these signs completely, and while I wouldn't advocate that position (I think Tag sales lend character to the area) I do think that people should somehow be compelled to remove them after the sale dates.
 
As far as political ads, it might make sense to incentivize their removal, as overzealous campaign workers can often clutter the roads willy nilly, with no clue as to where they've posted them.
 
As far as business signs, I don't think they should be allowed at all, unless they are billboards in an authorized (zoned and permitted) area.
 
Thanks again for soliciting the opinion.
 
 
From:
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 6:08 PM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Re: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
Pls have all candidates be responsible for their signage. Its visual pollution.
 
 
From:
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 7:31 AM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Re: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
Mr. Feiner, for political signs, the sign deposit idea is an excellent one.  This way, free speech is not inhibited, and there is an incentive to remove the signs in a timely fashion after the election.  Business signs are something different, I think, because they are not restricted to a specific time of year.  We should restrict these signs to specific locations.  It is one thing to tolerate political signs during the political season, but business signs all over the town for extended periods throughout the year tends to diminish the aesthetic appeal of our neighborhoods.  Just my two cents.
 
 
 
From:
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 9:15 AM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Re: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
1.  Business signs are put up in front of work that businesses have DONE successfully.  They are small and do not promote any views that people have.  They are agreed to by the employer.
2. Political signs are a mess. Often, they are on public space.  Ten of one sign appear in one spot; they are like having an argument back and forth in public.  HOWEVER, if I had to choose, I would MUCH RATHER have political phone calls stopped.
3. Have you seen the SIZE of the Astorino signs - they are like billboards!  Political signs should be regulated as to location, size and number, making them equal between candidates.  They should be small and unobtrusive.  They should not look like litter, and then truly become litter after the election when they remain.  Also, there should be a smaller window of time before an election when they can appear.
 
From:
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 10:19 AM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Re: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
Paul
 
I would ban all signs. They seem to be everywhere and are certainly an eyesore. These days everyplace you look seems to have either an Astorino or Bramson sign. Plus, it seems once they go up they stay up for inordinate amounts of time. 
 
 
From:
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 12:03 PM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Re: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
Hi Paul,
I think requiring a refundable deposit from political candidates, for placement of signs on public rights-of-way, is a great idea.  As you said, these deposits would be subject to forfeit, if said candidate(s) don't remove the sign(s) after Election Day.  I think there is a forgotten sign, face down, on the "triangle" adjacent to my house -- very frustrating and unsightly.  Also a potential hazard, if these forgotten signs fall or blow into the roadways.
Thanks,
 
 
From:
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 12:07 PM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Re: shredded flag to be replaced..should political signs be regulated
 
I think that candidates should put a deposit.
 
From:
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 11:59 PM
To: Paul Feiner
Subject: Lawn Signs
Well, here's my two cents worth concerning the lawn signs--
 
1.  Politics:  It is very irritating to see signs for candidates running for office long after the election is over.  I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect the candidates to have ALL signs taken down within a week or two after the election.  I believe a refundable deposit should also be set in place as an incentive to have the signs taken down within that time period.  As they are getting free advertising, I don't think asking for a deposit is asking for too much.
 
2.  Businesses:  I would NOT want to see lawn signs for businesses on our streets.  Having lawn signs for politics is one thing--elections are only held once a year.  Businesses do not operate the same way.  I think constantly seeing lawn signs for one business or another on our streets is an eye sore.  After all, weren't billboards taken down from our highways for exactly that same reason?  Why put up business lawn signs on our beautiful streets?  
 
 
 
 
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